On a recent two part episode of the show we discussed the trend of "de-conversion" primarily from evangelical circles into more progressive camps. The interest, for me, began with discussions about Jen Hatmaker and Jordan Peterson. Hatmaker, as she came out as LGBTQ+ inclusive was rejected by some as no longer Christian. All I had heard was that she left the church, when I listened to her I realized that she was not leaving the church at all, but expanding beyond the confines of conservative evangelicalism. Similarly, Jordan Peterson who has become a darling on the right, was introduced to me as a "non-Christian", but reading him allowed me to see for myself that he identifies with the Christian tradition, but he employs exegetical patterns of the Bible reminiscent of Higher Criticism and is thus considered a "wise pagan".